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Post subject: Weekly Eppy Discussions: Ep. 1x4 War Lover

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 17:48:58

Posted by Ernie on 9/23/2006, 8:22 pm

The most striking thing about this episode to me (again because of my past military history) was the fact that the Captain gave so much control of the mission to a Sargeant over Goldman an officer. Maybe I am wrong and we should get one of the military advisors to tell us why they did not give a more thorough mission objective to the Lt. and his job would have been the overall mission. It is all to tell a story and I know about poetic license but to give the control to a Sargeant seems a bit much.
The conflict between Zeke and Earl Ray was a lot of the reason but it still seems far fetched.

And I am amused at how that little girl managed to get away from those big ole' baby sitters. Curiouser and curiouser, said Alice. Kaj...

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Post subject: Re: War Lover?

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 17:49:32

Posted by Sgt.Pepper on 9/24/2006, 12:47 am, in reply to "War Lover?"

I definately am with you and Alice, "Curiouser and curiouser." But on the other hand maybe... it was because he had the knowledge of what to do... here we go again... It was LT's and Zeke's own backyard so to speak. As far as the squable between Zeke and Earl Ray... I got a few questions on that.... I got a lot of questions on that... When it came to the job... Zeke didn't pull no punches but he did it with heart... Earl Ray, on the other hand... seemed to have this huge chip on his shoulders... Attitudes were amuk here...

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Post subject: War Lover?

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 17:50:03

Posted by lovesmyron on 9/24/2006, 8:14 am, in reply to "Re: War Lover?"

Cruel Question Time or perhaps this will show how stupid I am.......what would be the Army's regulations about finding an orphaned child in a burnt out vil??? Would it be up to the individuals there? I ask because I saw an episode on American Family based on a true story during the Korean War where a soldier found a baby and tried his best to rescue it,but it froze to death on his chest...
Would the children then end up in an orphanage such as we see in Season 3 of TOD??

Also, in the rain scene,why was Ruiz the only one wearing one of those hats where the water just poured off the rim?? I thot..how smart..how come the other guys didn't put one on???

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Post subject: War Lover?

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 17:50:38

Posted by Ernie on 9/24/2006, 9:49 am, in reply to "Re: War Lover?"

I will try but what I say is not law and gospel! Here goes: Army regulations are to win the war, period! So orphans are an individual matter altogether. If there is a responsible adult that a child can be left with to be cared for, then that is the best option. If not, the child(ren) are taken to an orphanage or a Church setting or usually a government run agency that is set up to care for children like Child Protection or Foster Care. There is no obligation on the part of the soldier to care for a child. It can be left. Now we will get up in arms with that approach but it probably has never been done as Americans cannot leave a baby or small child behind no matter what! It is simply not in us. Zeke said to leave the newborn behind in another episode if you remember but Baker said he wouldn't leave it. Oddly enough, we are almost the same way with animals or pets.
When the men of the unit go out each day, they are expected to prepare for the trek as best they can. Each prepare their own way, and Ru was ready for the downpour that is so common in the jungle of Vietnam. You had to also prepare for the intense heat and humidity. Jungle rot is a big problem. Some are just a bit lazy and are caught unprepared often as they don't want to carry a bunch of "things" just in case.

Hope this answers it...Kaj...

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Post subject: War Lover?

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 17:50:56

Posted by Pen on 9/24/2006, 11:16 am, in reply to "Re: War Lover?"

Just out of curiosity, what did they use to prevent jungle rot?

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Post subject: War Lover?

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 17:51:13

Posted by lindy on 9/24/2006, 11:43 am, in reply to "Re: War Lover?"

Cant remember for sure what episode it was, maybe USO down? Taylor was sittin down, had his boots and army socks off, and was complaining about his skin turning green and having foot rot between his toes. He was using his knife for something?
Just what exactly? Im not sure LOL.

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Post subject: War Lover?

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 17:51:35

Posted by Sheila on 9/24/2006, 1:26 pm, in reply to "Re: War Lover?"

I can see that a small child can't be left behind on its own, but I cant help thinking that for a group of 19 yr old soldiers in the middle of a war, the last thing they need is a little girl to babysit.

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Post subject: War Lover?

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 17:51:56

Posted by Ernie on 9/24/2006, 4:15 pm, in reply to "Re: War Lover?"

Interesting discussion on this episode. And, I think the little girl was a little young to be a VC or symphatizer. Big boys probably would have done something else other than take a small girl on a mission that is endangered by say newbies.

Zeke had the big beef against Earl Ray, so when the tables were turned he could not say, 'I told you so!', to Zeke. Earl Ray did not want any problem with his war fighting duties, especially a small girl. It's the military mind again. Remember when the major wanted to abort the mission of relocating the ville? It's war first and only for military people like Earl Ray and the major. And that was the point of the story.

It is not easy to get rid of jungle rot once you get it. Staying clean and dry in certain areas is a must. And our guys were clean and spit shined at all times right! LOL! Did they ever take a bath? I remember keeping a light bulb burning in my locker all the time to fight off mildew. You get used to damp sheets eventually. A friend got a sunburn at Elephant beech and then got a fungus under the dead skin, and it was regular visits to the hospital to get rid of it. Kaj...

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Post subject: War Lover?

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 17:52:17

Posted by lindy on 9/24/2006, 11:37 am, in reply to "Re: War Lover?"

Really good questions and really good explanations Ernie.
Especially what you said about each man deciding for himself, what he would or would not carry in his pack, or on his body, when about to go on a mission.
Remember in Make Death Proud to take us? When Percell was helping Eddie Bell pack for a mission? And he commented on just whut in heck Eddie had in his pack as it was real heavy? Seasoned soldiers learned to pack light. They just packed the necessities and nothing else.
Eddie had packed heaps of c-rats along with several canteens of water? He cleaned his teeth a lot apparently? And wanted to use his canteen water rather than risk getting sick using river water. Percell told him the river water is fine to clean his teeth, and to just take his tablets.

As for the orphaned girl and Zekes decision to take her with them? While I support what Zeke did as a human being, he really did put the squad at increased risk by taking her along. (Although, if certain soldiers had done a better job of watching her, the end may have been a lot happier for the Americans and Zekes actions wouldnt have been criticized)
The girl did exactly what Michaels feared she would, and tipped off the VC. And as a result, Earl Rays buddy got killed. And Zeke and Earl Ray were lucky to survive as well. I was expecting Earl Ray to lose it completely with Zeke at that point. But he didnt even snipe back??? There was no "I told you so Zeke!"
I dont know? Maybe Earl ray figured they were even now?
That they'd both made mistakes that had ultimately cost men their lives, and they'd just have to live with that?
I also think the writers were really trying to shape Zekes character in this episode.
Zekes wanting to take this child and protect her, give her a chance at a future, I think, stemmed from his own growing up as an orphan.
I dont think for one second, that Zeke took the child with them, just in order to tick Michaels off.
Plus the writers would later show Zeke trying to learn from his past mistakes. He does a complete turn around when caught in a similar situation in Brothers, Fathers, Sons.
You can see in Zekes eyes the pain he is feeling when the lady dies after childbirth. In his heart he wants to pick up the baby and nurse it.
But he is reminded of that day when he took the girl from the ville and she ran across the bridge screaming and tipped off the VC.
So he gets tough, and *orders* Baker and Johnson to leave the baby behind.
They dont get his reasons at all.
Thinking he's cold and uncaring.
But he's only got their best interests at heart

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