Post subject: Weekly Eppy Discussions: Ep. 1x6 Burn, Baby, Burn

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 22:42:54

Are we talking ERA here?

Posted by Ernie on 10/7/2006, 7:43 pm

Correct me if I am wrong, but "Burn, Baby, Burn", was the motto of the Equal Rights Ammendment, the women's liberation movement, wasn't it? Burning the bra was the symbol of the ERA. Black power was the raised fist, as practiced by H. Rap Brown and his followers in the beginning.
Prejudice is difficult for me to tolerate and to even watch. But I did and I was impressed by the difficult positions Zeke and L-T were in one more time. We will see racial tensions rear it's ugly head again later in the series of TOD.

As much as I don't want to, I must defend the white haired bigot when his weapon jammed. As far back as basic training, we were hearing that the M-16 was jamming a lot in Vietnam. We were training on the M-14. It was bigger and was heavier and did not have the ammo capabilities the M-16 did but it was a more dependable weapon. The jamming was a problem but this time it was more complex.

Abe Lincoln quoted the Bible when he said, "A house divided, cannot stand!" We see this in the episode this weekend. A complex enemy plus a group of men torn into factions by hatred and anger can do some awesome damage to a war effort. When we see stories like this one, is it any wonder that we lost this war.

We had the VC, NVA, Laotians; Cambodians; dissident locals fighting the ARVN and Americans (who were divided into groups of races) and we see confusion that boggles the mind. And how did that guy get Johnson's bayonet without him knowing about it? Kaj...



Back to top

Post subject: Hate this episode

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 22:43:26

Posted by cjay on 10/7/2006, 8:12 pm, in reply to "Are we talking ERA here?"

I'm from Georgia and this garbage about the Confedate flag is STILL going on here! Just yesterday (Friday) a bunch of teenagers were sent home because they were wearing shirts with the Flag on them. 1 girl said " it's not about racism or slavery but about Southern heritage". Ignorant rednecks. This happens a couple times a year during school. Somebody will have a Confederate Flag on the back of their truck or the idiots will wear the Flag shirts and the flack starts!
Until 3 years ago we had the Flag as part of our State flag. It was always a fight to get that thing removed. We had a governor who removed it and then he lost the next election because the present governor promised to put it back...so far he hasn't....thank goodness.
You can see cars with the Flag in their license plate or bumper stickers. I hate being behind them.
That Confederate Flag issue has been a tough one for our state and it makes everybody seem like ignorant morons like Innis. We're not all that way just a few ding dongs who don't want to let go of that "good old boy" image! **ick* *yuck*

H Rap Brown? Did you know he's in jail here in Atlanta Ernie! Tried to kill a cop a few years ago. Oh....it was ugggllly here while they were looking for him.

That actor that played the redneck....he was in a couple more movies in the last few years playing redneck Klan types. Hope he's just a good actor that picks bad parts to play.

Sorry about the long winded speech but I live with this stupid junk almost everyday and this episode makes me cringe too.



Back to top

Post subject: Re: Hate this episode

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 22:43:46

Posted by lovesmyron on 10/7/2006, 8:44 pm, in reply to "Hate this episode"

: Sorry about the long winded speech but I
: live with this stupid junk almost everyday
: and this episode makes me cringe too.
Ahhh another reason why TOD should be in the record books instead of off the air in the US...it portrayed what was going on during that time... and even now!!!...so much unrest and all the talk of free love when really there was so much hate everywhere



Back to top

Post subject: Re: Hate this episode

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 22:44:05

Posted by Sgt.Pepper on 10/8/2006, 12:37 am, in reply to "Re: Hate this episode"

I grew up in the great USofA... and use to get my behind busted for playing with the "Wrong" people... I never could understand what this thing called color and race is... When ever I hear someone use a racial slur... I get in their faces... There is the bug race, animal race, and the Human Race... Other than car racing and horse racing or a good foot race... where did these other races come from?



Back to top

Post subject: It opened my eyes.

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 22:44:32

Posted by lindy on 10/8/2006, 1:20 am, in reply to "Re: Hate this episode"

Yeah...TOD really opened our eyes
It dealt as honestly as it could with the real issues of war and the effects those things had on ppl.
Religion, racism, political views....
One on its own is always enough to start a war.
All of em together and you got a real big problem. (Like Ernie said...In Vietnam, they had so many obstacles to deal with. Its no wonder the Americans lost the war.)
In Burn Baby Burn I thought a very pertinent part of the show was when Percell was talking to Tucker...trying to figure out why Tucker was so bitter ...Percell bless his heart, was such a good guy in this ep. But he'd been living in a bubble. But showing Percell in this light, was not done solely to make him appear like an ignorant country boy.It was a wake up call to Tucker, to make him see that not all white ppl are racist pigs like Innis and Allen.
Tucker explained about the hardship his family suffered and how he went back home after his first tour, thinking he and his family would be treated differently after fighting for his country. That maybe things might have changed for the better back home. But in truth, nothing had changed. If anything, in his view, it had got worse. ANd was gonna continue to get worse.
ANd he said to Percell "so excuse me for hanging onto my hatred. But Its all Ive got left to hang on to"
And that there, was the problem!
Now what he said to Percell certainly didnt excuse his behaviour... Because not all white ppl were the cause of his problems.
But it did put a whole different perspective on things.
At least from my POV.
Innis's racism was probably more a form of brainwashing...a hatred he grew up with, thru bigoted views and opinions being passed down thru the family generations) whereas Tuckers racism was from years of personal suffering.

But whatever the reason one becomes racist...Racism is ugly. And it would be nice if it could be stamped out good and proper, for all time!
Never to rear its ugly head again!

Like the Sarge says...
"Not in my Platoon. NOT IN MY PLATOON!!!!! This is my home. This is where I live. You take this garbage some place else!"

I say "HERE HERE!"

Lt handled Allen well. When he said to Allen he had a lot of respect for Southern pride and courage but the Confederate flag stays down!

And we saw a side of Baker we hadnt really seen before. He had no tolerance for racism. And Neither did Ruiz.
Ruiz looked mighty proud of Baker as he stood up to that redneck Allen, warning him to didi out of his area. Said all this stuff is bringing him down, and he doesnt like it.

There was an irony in that Tanh (the little arvn soldier) used Johnsons knife to kill Innis.. knowing that with the racism issue going on, Johnson would naturally get the blame. Yet it was Johnson who ran into the ville, and saved Tanhs life, when the rest of the platoon were too busy hating each other, to go and help their buddy.
Should they/ Would they have been charged with mutiny?



Back to top

Post subject: Re: Hate this episode

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 22:45:04

Posted by Ernie on 10/8/2006, 10:45 am, in reply to "Re: Hate this episode"

Accolaides to Tour of Duty to bring out a horrible subject and the best in it's fans! We have written some great words on racism and prejudice here on this board.
I grew up in rural Louisiana and had absolutely no contact with black people or any other race for that matter, so when I was drafted into the Army I was green on this issue.

However, in basic training, we had a white man that was taller but thin like me, he was very white like me and he had bad coordination. He was simply not going to make it through basic because he was physically not able. I had become close to a black man that was bunked over me and we would go to church together a lot.

Our platoon Sergeant was a great guy, and he came to me to see if we would help Watson get thru the tests that he had to pass to graduate. If he did not, he would have to go through basic again and then if he failed again, he would be dishonorably discharged.

I asked my friend if he would help me. My physical was not great but I was high on my scholastic scores so I was not in danger of failing. I was not able to help Watson with the scolastic so it had to be physical.

Together with the black friend we went through several obstacles and then helped Watson on his. Running the mile was the last thing and we were on each side of Watson pulling by his arms, when another big black man saw what we were doing and ran back out to us and got behind him and we carried that guy across the line in time to graduate. All three helpers were from the south and Watson was from Chicago.

There does not have to be racial tension. Hating someone for any reason is a matter of choice, and how we choose defines us in this life and is our legacy from then on. Kaj...



Back to top

Post subject: thoughts on Percell & Tucker; Johnson at NDP

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 22:45:24

Posted by Erika on 10/8/2006, 12:58 pm, in reply to "Re: Hate this episode"

I agree with Lindy on the role of Percell in this episode. He was a wonderful counterpoint to all the racist crap that was being flung around by Innis et al. and Tucker et al. I really admired his sincerity and perseverance in trying to reach out to the bitter Tucker and talk some sense into him. In one scene, he finally does manage to connect with Tucker, and though Tucker won't come away letting go of his hatred, at least Percell got him to admit what it is: hatred for hatred's sake.

I think the fact that Percell was able to breach some of Tucker's barriers is a great credit to Percell's earnest and noble character, and how he can earn people's goodwill. Even Tucker, full of hate, let down his walls and his anger, for just one moment. This is more than Tucker allowed for even Taylor and Johnson, when he talked about Darden and asked, "What have I done?"

And Ernie, I too wonder how realistic it is that Tam was able to get his hands on Johnson's bayonet. Johnson is an experienced and careful soldier; he'd have to have been pretty zonked-out tired not to have noticed someone creeping up to him and taking his bayonet.

And another thing I wonder, how common or realistic was it that a soldier at an NDP would get posted alone, and fall asleep? That seems like something that isn't *supposed* to happen.



Back to top

Post subject: Re: Hate this episode

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 22:45:45

Posted by Maire on 10/8/2006, 7:48 pm, in reply to "Re: Hate this episode"

Ernie - I loved your Watson story, and I like to think that the majority of people are like that. As Anne Frank said, "People are really good at heart" [Im probably paraphrasing.]

: Hating someone for any reason is a matter of
: choice, and how we choose defines us in this
: life and is our legacy from then on. Kaj...

That is really a profound statement, and I mean that with utmost sincerity. Id put it on a sampler if I knew how to sew. M



Back to top

Post subject: Re: Hate this episode

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 22:46:05

Posted by Ernie on 10/8/2006, 8:35 pm, in reply to "Re: Hate this episode"

Thanks Maire! I hate prejudice. It hurts un-necessarily and there is no need for it. Life is too precious for us to hate or be hated for any reason.
I often wondered what happened to Watson. Kaj...



Back to top

Reply to topic
Page 1 of 1    






View previous topic   View next topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

Display posts from previous:  All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First 

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Jump to:  Select a forum TEAM HOUSE----------------Shootin' the BullWelcome THE SHOW----------------Tour of Duty General DiscussionThe EpisodesThe CharactersThe MusicCampaigns THE CAST----------------Before and Beyond Tour of DutyStop, Drop & Roll (or Swoon, Drop & Drool) REAL WORLD----------------RealityJust Curious... FLIGHTS OF IMAGINATION----------------Fan FictionOther Imaginings & Works HOME IS WHERE YOU DIG IT----------------This Is the Strangest Foxhole I Have Ever SeenEpisode Guides ProjectTranscripts ProjectSong Listing ProjectGlossary ProjectTimeline ProjectThe Bravo Wiki Pages MARKETPLACE----------------Official MerchandiseWantedUp for Grabs OFF THE TOP----------------Off the Top SLEEPING LOGS----------------The HUM90 Message Board Archives THE ROAD TO LONG BEEN----------------The Tour of Duty Fans Message Board Archives

Bravo 344 Forum Index    .    The HUM90 Message Board Archives